Category: the Rant Board
So yeah, shit happened and I'm really upset (both angry and sad) because of something that my best friend did.
My best friend is a blind guy who I met back in 2012 and throughout most of our friendship we could be described as "inseparable". There have been relatively small hiccups but something completely unanticipated happened.
He has had trouble with adjusting to college life away from home. He doesn't have many friends and people are very disrespectful of him. I have helped him go through a lot of the crap that he deals with and told him to push through. I'm not blind myself but I get a lot of crap from my own problems and can sympathize.
Anyways...
On Monday his problems reached an apex. That evening he seemed really depressed. I tried to talk to him since work wasn't very intensive (I work full time now) but it didn't really help. He said he thought he forgot something on campus, even though it was closed. He said he went to the campus but the doors were locked, and he returned home, and said he was going to hang out with some people at a party or something.
The next morning I find out that police drove him home because he passed out on the campus floor. He was understandably upset and embarrassed. He seemed really depressed because of it, but nothing that was "overboard". Later, I found out additional details - his room mates apparently called the police about his absence and exaggerated its length - 2 days - even though it was clear that he communicated with them previously. I was outraged by this - he has enough problems already, he doesn't have to deal with his room mates lying to the police.
On Wednesday he then pulls a 180 because he asks his room mates if they called the police on him or not. They, unsurprisingly, deny any accusations. Instead of confirming this with other sources he then decides he's going to blame me for it, call me insane, and then proceeds to remove all contact with me. I was on lunch, and when I returned, I was kind of like, what the fuck dude, but within 10 minutes the deed was done - he cut me off. He said he would "bring me back if he found me innocent" but I believe he has since blocked me. I presume this is because the police report didn't save information on who called them about it - I called them before he did and found that no identifiable characteristics were recorded.
I have phone records to prove that I did not call anyone on that night. I never called the police on him once (although I called the apartment people to check up on him 2 weeks prior). On Monday I was out of the house for over 12 hours, and I had to wake up very early the next morning to go to work for a meeting. I was too tired to even question it. In addition, I talked with him that evening, and like I noted prior, I didn't even think he went out on his own until I found out about the news later.
I think he has some serious bipolar or something, and usually I can work him down enough so that we can at least talk about things. This is very unusual behaviour for him. Literally a week prior we were talking about how much we helped each other... and then... this. I don't even know how I could have prepared for this. This is extremely unfair.
I have attempted to contact him but I think he blocked my email and my Skype. (I do have multiple emails but I think they will be rejected as well). I sent him the stuff I was going to give him because it's rightfully his stuff, but it hasn't been delivered. I wonder if he's ignoring the package. I also included a sound file of me just trying to vent and tell him how I feel and why I couldn't have done this.
I know some people will tell me to "just cut ties", but at the moment that is not something that I want to do. Namely, because this guy is my best friend and this is extremely unusual behaviour for him. In fact there was absolutely no lead up to this sort of anger and animosity that could have been quelled earlier I feel like I have trodden already too much with mailing his stuff back and attempting to contact him. I have no idea how to fix this. I just want my friend to at least just talk to me about this. If he wants to do this at least have the balls to give me closure.
I keep thinking about actually going down there and talking to him but I think that would do a lot more harm than good. Also, thought about buying his room mates pizza and inserting a message to tell them to tell the truth if they were involved.
I just want to know what other people think. I'm getting really upset by this.
If it matters drop over. You can't hurt it any worse.
I guess. I'm worried that he'll get mega pissed over it and make the situation worse (as in calling me an intruder or some crazy shit like that). People who are on a swing can be freaking crazy sometimes. Since it's out of state it's also expensive. My car can't handle the trip so I'll have to take a bus or something. I can't afford that though until at least the 15th, so at least I have time to make my decision.
Also, I don't think he's blocking me(judging from tests I did on Skype), although it seems like my requests are either being manually rejected or are timing out. (For reference, on my test, if a user is "blocked and deleted", they appear as if they're offline, not as if they haven't put you on their contacts). Great, this makes me worry more now since I don't think his messages are hitting through, as they haven't since Friday evening. Makes me wonder if he's alright.
He's clearly having a serious struggle here. This doesn't excuse his behaviour to you, but it does explain it.
The question is, at this point, how rough/insistent you want to be.
If you go down to see him, he might get outraged. If he's really off his hinge, he might even try to call the cops. At the same time, I somehow don't think he'd go quite that far, based on what you've told us here. If you want to forcibly save this friendship, or at least get an honest word in, you're going to have to buckle down and accept a fair lot of anger. It's not pretty, but there it is. In my experience, if you can see a person face to face, you can almost always at least get your side of the story across. It's easy enough to wall a person who's a couple of hours away. It's easy to hang up the phone, block emails or whatnot. It's not so easy to ignore a person knocking on a door or touching your arm and pleading with you to just listen for a minute.
I can't stress this enough though. If you do end up going down there, for heaven's sake don't explode on him. Okay, so you're going to have to stretch your budget. He's being immature. He's upset you. All of these thinngs are completely valid, and you have every reason in the world to be angry. But when you visit him, that isn't the time for your anger. If you blow up in his face, he's going to find it even easier still to reject you out of hand.
My recommendation is the same as Wayne's. Go down there and see him, if you can. Also, while you're down there, if you can get a chance to do this, try and confront him in front of his roommates so they have a chance to squirm, or say what they're going to say, or whatnot. it might add pressure, but it might be enough to make them crack.
I wish you the best of luck. You probably don't need this, but I'll offer anyway. If you need someone to vent at, someone who doesn't really know you and will just listen or act as a sounding-board, I'm available. Send me a private message if you want my skype. I'll take no offense if you don't; offer's open, that's all I'm saying.
One way or another, I hope this works out. Situations like this are thorny as hell.
If you do end up going down there I wouldn't recommend going by yourself in case things get hairy. If this guy is angry, and you add to that more roommates who might get angry, it might not be a bad idea to have someone with you or at least in the area to back you up.
I would say definitely go there and at the very least make sure he's all right physically. That part couldn't hurt. But the other thing to consider is that if you think he's cut you off, you almost have to accept that fact until the time comes when, or if, he's ready to talk to you. It'll hurt on the one hand, but on the other it'll be easier to deal with because at least for the moment, you know there's nothing you can actively do to fix things right now. Sometimes it is what it is.
I'd say this situation is already clear. things are what they are, and instead of going down there, your best bet would be to accept that, and let him come to you, if he ever wants to.
you say you've tried reaching out, several times, already, so given the fact he hasn't responded, he seems to be having a real struggle with himself, not to mention, you suspect his roommates will go ape shit on you. so, knowing those things, that's what makes me say leaving it be seems best.
It should be noted that I simply do not have the finances to meet him in person until the 15th, and even then it will be tight. I just started my job in January walking in with barely enough money to get through the first two weeks, and I've been having to pay off medical bills.
At this point it seems like the only effective communication may be writing letters to his neighbours (via snail mail, too). Like I said in the OP, I sent him stuff that was his, but I don't think he was there to pick it up yesterday. Hopefully it won't be sent back (that was kind of expensive to ship).
I've considered both sides of the argument that's being presented here. Hopefully he'll wisen up enough in the next week or so to realize he made a big mistake. But it's true that it's very hard to shut someone down who's in your face. I hate the fact that he's so far away because it wouldn't be a big deal if he was up here at home.
It's just very hard to handle situations like this. Like I said earlier, based on Skype tests, I don't think he fully blocked me, but because he did remove me from his contacts, he can only read my requests. He said last time about something about seeing a theatre with someone so I would assume he's spending the weekend with that person.
It's incredibly upsetting that things had to go this way. I know people who are saying, "well maybe you should just go", but it's very hard when it's someone that, well, you have some tough times with, never just went and, boom. Gone. This person is someone who helped me through a lot of stuff and I helped them back and we were very close, even up to the incident.
Since I know his address though, addressing his neighbours shouldn't be too difficult, I wouldn't imagine.
well, you have the good memories, so why not just leave it at that? I don't understand what's so hard about that. you've sent him his stuff, in addition to reaching out several times. in other words, you've done all you can, really.
Most people can't watch a psychologically abnormal episode like this pan out and say "Oh well, so long and thanks for all the memories". That's why. Most people aren't fair-weather friends. Most people, and the topic creator has proven herself to be one, are individuals who get tangled up in emotional attachments with others. They have to clean up the blood when people are hurt. They have to weigh loyalties against practicalities, and it's not math, it's feelings. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is simple when it comes to human interaction; believe me, I wish it was, but it's not. All the rationalizing in the world won't help here, Chelsea. All it will do is make you look cruel.
You don't see what's so hard about just jumping ship in a situation like this. That's fair. I hope you never have a friend withha mental disorder who, at least in part because of said disorder, does something like this to you. A lot of bridges get burned, and can never be remade properly, because people forget these very important words: "I understand".
Honestly, I think it's one thing to try and see/talk to him directly... but leave his neighbors out of it. They don't have a right to know all that's going on, and it could make the situation worse if your friend finds out that you've been talking to his neighbors.
Kate
Chelsea, this person I am very close with. They're my best friend. This sort of behaviour is extremely unusual and is caused by a variety of factors. Its true that things may not be salvageable, however based on past experiences with the man and the fact that I'm 95% sure he didn't actually block me on Skype is implying that he's trying to get some solace time to try to think things through (based on tests I did today with Skype as well as observing his behavioural patterns). Hopefully this is the case and we can sort issues out later when he swings back.
When you are dealing with someone that you care about, that has pulled through 99 times out of 100, then yes, you have to correct that 1 time out of 100, but it's not a reason why you burn bridges. I have emotional problems myself and I have a tendency to act in similar ways under pressure, which is why I try to help him when he's under it.
I see where you're coming from CrazyMagician, the only reason why I would contact them is because they are technically involved because they didn't tell him the truth initially.
I'm gonna give it a few days to make sure the package doesn't get "returned to sender". This would be caused either by him not being at the door, or by ignoring it. Hopefully it's neither.
I don't know if his neighbours are his roommates, or if they're people who live in the house/dorm next door. If it's more the latter, then they're really not involved. Dragging them in may do more harm than good.
They're kind of like both, it's one of those situations where they share, say, a kitchen.
Well I'm keeping track of Fedex. Hopefully he'll pick it up today or tomorrow. I know he's all butthurt about this but he's gonna have to face me about it eventually. I mean all I ask for is to just talk about this reasonably and not give me only 10 minutes to defend myself against something I didn't do.
I'm both frustrated and depressed at the same time...
Well it got delivered, hopefully he doesn't return it.
I feel kind of like I did the wrong thing, they were his things but they were presents I was going to give him when we were going to hang out again. I know that it isn't like, say, "money that I owe him" or anything so I feel awkward about it. There's also a flash drive with me telling him about how I felt. I just hope that he listens instead of shutting down.
Shepherdwolf is right about human interactions and feelings. The myth that we only use a small percent of our brain is just that, a myth. Most of what our brain does is sort out emotional attachments and deal with interactions with other people. Humans need each other.
I totally get where Daigonite is coming from, though I have nothing to add beyond what others have said. Only that you have my sympathies. Before I knew bipolar was even a word I very much misunderstood those situations. I think it's great you've both helped each other out in the past, and once you can get through this one, perhaps things will be solid again.
Well, we can only hope, that's what I say.
If he's being this unreasonable now, when will it happen again? This is how people talk themselves in to staying in abusive situations. If you're the one making all the effort, it's just a matter of time before you'll get pretty resentful. You said he doesn't have many friends, and that people give him a hard time. I can understand this, since I'm always drawn to the underdog type, the ones who seem to be trampled and unfairly treated. But perhaps there's a reason why these people don't have many friends, or are given a hard time. The ones who say that people don't respect or consider them are quite often the very ones who have no respect or consideration for others. This is a great example. It's only about him. He's not considering what you're going through at all. Is this what you want from someone you call a best friend? I do understand that we should be there for our friends, but don't beat yourself up over it. Try to talk to him, and if that doesn't work, wait until he comes crawling back. And if he doesn't, then he really meant what he said about cutting you off. Again, this is your best friend who is unable or unwilling to give you a chance.
Yes, I'm sure my words will be taken as harsh. All I can say is that I'm one of those who will put up with quite a lot from someone that I really care about. I allow them to belittle me and erode my self-confidence. I've just learned that it doesn't end up paying off in the longrun. I wish you luck and hope you keep us posted. Above all else, make sure you're safe.
thank you, Anthony, for saying exactly what I was trying to.
I don't care whether someone is your mother, or your best friend...if he or she treats you like shit, whether mental issues are present or not, you shouldn't settle for having them in your life to the degree that a loving best friend or mother, would be.
as the OP is clearly showing, this does nothing but hurt you, depress you, and make you question your self-worth.
sure, those are things we humans experience, but, if you know certain situations or people will cause you to feel that way, why continue having them around? you deserve better, and ultimately, you deserve to have people in your life who contribute to your happiness, rather than contribute to your unhappiness.
Yes, exactly. I've had to come to terms with a lot of this myself lately. It's easy to believe that I'm not a good friend or that I don't do enough for my friends. I always look back on things and think that maybe, if I had tried just a little bit harder or said just the right thing, it would all be different now. However, there are those who will use that to their advantage, just to make you feel bad and worthless. Maybe now, I'm going to the other extreme for a bit. I don't know, but I'm tired of being belittled, so the best thing I can do for myself is get away from those who love to belittle me. If my own recent experiences are over influencing my posts in this topic, I do appoligize. I just hate to see anyone struggle like that, only to find that, in the end, nothing changed. Those people who jump from crisis to crisis and always want you to be around to listen and help pick up the pieces will literally destroy you, if you let them. As soon as you stop listening to their latest crisis, they'll just find someone else who will. These people are, (yep, you guessed it,) generally disliked and not very well respected.
Oh goodness. This is a tough one. Unlike Chelsea, I can't say I'd simply write someone off if they wrote me off first--I understand the complex dynamics of a close friendship such as the one you describe, and mental illness isnt' something to be toyed with or dismissed without a care.
And one more thing: you're a great friend.
However, with that said, I'd strongly advise you back off--at least a little bit. The desperation with which you wrote this post suggests a rather unhealthy, unbalanced friendship right now...And quite honestly, doing anything further on your part could be considered stalking. I'm serious. You may have the best of intentions, but behavior that borders stalking is creepy--and quite frankly, enough to push someone away even further. For instance, sending letters to his neighbors or roommates--creepy and invasive. Borderline stalking. Don't go for that one, OP.
If this person is really as emotionally unstable as you say, you can't get him out of his black hole no matter how hard you try. You just end up digging yourself into a deep one of your own. How do I know this? I dated a guy with mental issues for a couple of years--someone I considered my best friend at the time, and though you don't suggest anywhere that you have any romantic ties to this best friend of yours, this situation smells strongly of what transpired during that time and place for me. And the only one shafted in the end was me. I invested so much of myself to make him the best he could be, to improve his situation and build him up that I lost track of myself altogether for a while. No joke. I was so worried about this guy that every time he called--or his parents called--saying he was on the verge of another breakdown and he's being sent to a mental facility, I literally started shaking and experiencing heart palpitations--a classic sign of a stress-induced panic attack.
He would weave me into the thick of things and then throw me away as he pleased, as needed, only to rope me in again and I fell for it for at least two years. I almost failed out of college--thats' how invested I was in his issues. Ironically, I tried to do everything to make him pass his own courses--which he didnt' end up doing in the end.
You have a lot on the line here. You have a new job, school--if I'm not mistaken--and your own mental health. Please don't take advantage of yourself in order to help someone else when they're way past accepting your help anyway at this point.
Now, you say your friend has never done this sort of thing before and he's acting totally out of character, but this may be the beginning of a pattern. As anthony stated, some of this reaks of mental abuse--and dont' be mistakened--mental abuse can occur between friends.
If nothing else, please understand that you need to take care of yourself first--otherwise you cant' help him at all. You seem like the responsible one of the two of you, but I seriously would back off. You shipped the package, more than I would have done by the way--you made sure it was delivered--now just sit tight and wait. At this point, you cant' say you didnt' do anything to salvage the situation--and if you do more, you might cause more harm than good.
I truly wish you the best of luck. Hang tight and try your best to take it easy.
Oh boy, Anthony and Bernadetta both have colorfully illustrated what no one else could. I think also that this problem can affect what we used to call the Type A personality types more. Not that you are either A or B, they classed me a C lol, but the Chick is a Type A and ran into this very issue. You feel responsible, probably the oldest child, you are the one who is left to manage things, and you are supposed to make it all better.
Except, not.
The Chick had to spend several years recovering from a similar situation, and there were mental issues in that one also. Unfortunately I saw the signs but bought the 90s bullshit about don't tell her, listen to her, and so I openly admit that I contributed by not saying anything, and generally just picking up the house, looking after the little one, and going to work.
Oh, and trust me, these things always always always start with the very best of intentions, and Anthony is right about people not being well liked. I'm not really a Type A but I admit fully that I usually will do a lot of the same sticking up for the one not liked. In my case, I was often the one not liked or cast off, sometimes for the wrong reasons and sometimes because I deserved it, and so I went out and unconsciously started being like that. But the difference is, if you are more the take charge type, like it sounds like you are and The Chick I'm married to is, this'll get you into real trouble. I mean, if you're not sleeping right, have some kind of situation near your bed *just in case* he responds, clothes laid out so you can jump up and go? That is a problem. Unless you're a clutterbug like me who leaves last night's clothes by the side of the bed, something She allows for so long as they're on my side of the bed lol.
But yeah, when I read Anthony's and Bernadetta's posts, it so reminded me of that incident which ruptured and ended over ten years ago now but took years of Her life to recover.
And yeah to all that anxiety stuff.
I get the sympathies with mental illness. Especially if you didn't know before, like I didn't with one of the nieces and thought she was only being a little spazz and would tell her pipe down, girl. But, dare I say, that is way different. Way different from what you are getting into with this situation. I'm not the best at explaining this stuff, only saying, don't start doing that stuff like Bernadetta's telling you not to. Those of the very things that will make you feel like you're losing yourself to that other person. And both are right about the emotional manipulation and things, Oh, there's no one else, and on and on and on. It gets bad. We even had a situation a couple years ago where it happened again with someone else but we were able to get it to stop.
Here's the real answer: You're not the only one. Damn I wish I had foregone common thinking then and just told her! But anyway, you're not the only one. You never were, and never are. Trust me, I've been shit on, cast aside and been by myself before, sure I was a lot younger. But I could always go out and do something. Everyone can. And now there are these hotlines and things, not just for suicides. There's a lot out there, and you're far from the only one who can help him. The cold truth is, it might be possible that other people actually do understand something about him, something you don't yet. That's hard to take. But i'll tell you, it's the truth. I defended the person the Chick was helping, years ago, and in that situation tried trotting that shit out, saying nobody understands them, to someone who had known them for 13 years? Yeah, you can guess how that went.
I'm just sayin, there are more sides to the story than just one. If you are a sympathetic human being, or especially as She says, a Sensitive, then you are going to have a tough time believing it.
Anyway enough of me rambling. Others have been more concise and frankly what Anthony and Bernadetta said makes a ton of sense.
The reason why I trust him and find him salvageable because again, this behaviour is highly unusual. Call me an idiot, I don't care. At this point, cutting ties is not what is intended right now, and I am taking care of myself just fine - this stuff is okay. It's just very frustrating and upsetting that this is happening.
He doesn't have many friends because he tends to be very quiet and waits for people to come to him rather than vice-versa; he's also pretty introverted and gets stressed from too many people around. He prefers to avoid people. People treat him what he perceives as crap because he is admittedly a bit arrogant and stubborn and doesn't like the pandering that people give him because of his blindness, but I wouldn't go anywhere near as far as to say that he is described as a terrible friend. He never got that vibe from me which indicates it's mainly other people's problem. And yeah, I sound like a jerk for saying that, but I've learned with my own problems that yes, a lot of the time it's other people expecting you to be one way and getting something completely different. He also has issues with trusting people and because of that he has a lot of trouble making friends. In fact, I think that this bipolar stint in his behaviour was marked by a great mistrust in someone that he thought he trusted (me).
I wouldn't be so quick to file abuse just yet though. I've been with him for long enough to recognize any sort of "pattern" which doesn't exist. His patterns are more reflective of someone who suffers from bipolar (going from feeling really good to downright terrible) than abusive, which is why I consider our friendship still worth salvaging. Because this behaviour is very unusual it's much too early to determine abuse. Like I noted previously this is really unusual and had literally no sort of lead up or anything. The only thing I could indicate was that he was initially pissed off at his neighbours for calling the police, but when they denied it, it reverted to me. It's clear that through this he was not thinking rationally.
As such, just taking my memories and leaving is not what I would consider an option yet. From my previous experience this is someone who needs help, not someone who uses others.
Regarding the stalking thing, this is exactly what has me on edge. I'm not personally very good at determining what is "too much" and I just want to be able to talk to him. But he lost his phone and is in another state. He can't hear my voice. I sent a flash drive with my pleas but there is no indication that he will hear it. He may have thrown the box out for all we know. It's not fair.
He's... uh... definitely not like what you described there. He definitely has some form of bipolar but I wouldn't say that it's like that usually. On his side, most of the time he does something stupid that makes him feel like shit and he bitches about it. If he's depressed he talks about how he is playing the guitar or something. I listen. I mean, honestly I'm very similar to him in myself, and I have a feeling that if I did the same thing to him he would act in a similar way. I've been with people in the past who I tried to "fix" but it didn't work, this isn't so much about "fixing" someone as so much as being there for someone through the tough times. He's done the same for me as I did for him. So yeah. That's why I don't want to give up.
Of course, he pulls this crap again I'm pulling the plug very quickly, but I trust him enough not to.
Just keep your eyes sharp and your heart resolved.
I've said everything I've said till now with the unspoken caveat that you don't continue doing it over and over and over again. Once is not a cycle, but it can be the start of one.
You and he obviously have a complex relationship. Please pardon me for saying, but it does sound like you're making excuses for him just a bit. This is something friends do, and it doesn't mean he's not entitled to help. Just don't completely break your neck, don't overextend yourself.
Were it me, I'd want to go see the person and straighten it out if and when finances permitted. Beyond that, though, I wouldn't push much further. Sometimes, no really does mean no, and as much as you don't want to, you may have to accept it.
I don't get it. he's upset cause either you or his roomates called the cops cause he was missing for a while. Looking at it from another point of view his roomates were probley worried that he didn't get home on time. What if the cops didn't find him how long would he have been fainted on the floor. another thing his roomates may have said that he was gone for 2 days because unless 24 hours hav gone by the cops won't bother looking for you. at the end of the day he has issues if he's upset that you care about him theres nothing you can do about that
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I don't get it. he's upset cause either you or his roomates called the cops cause he was missing for a while. Looking at it from another point of view his roomates were probley worried that he didn't get home on time. What if the cops didn't find him how long would he have been fainted on the floor. another thing his roomates may have said that he was gone for 2 days because unless 24 hours hav gone by the cops won't bother looking for you. at the end of the day he has issues if he's upset that you care about him theres nothing you can do about that
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Yeah that was something that struck me too. Its definitely something that if he does make the decision to stop hiding that I will bring up.
A few weeks ago I called the apartment to check up on him and they totally blew it out of proportion (counseling services got involved and all sorts of crap), he was upset about that and, while he wasn't mad at me, it was clear that he didn't want to deal with all the crap involved with it. I told him to stay careful since he's under the radar but obviously he didn't listen too well. He doesn't want to deal with his mistake and is blaming others because he wants to do this stupid crap.
Like I said previously this reaction is completely abnormal though. Usually he just takes it on himself (and exaggerates his response). Usually he actually refrains from the behaviour but when he gets depressed he succumbs to his previous bad habits, usually through drinking. Again, I just try to be the person he can talk to. I know I'm not going to fix every problem, but I did help him with some, so it gives me hope. Something like this is a major setback in our ability to trust each other though.
You bring up a good point about the 24 hour thing. I didn't even think about that. Although, a lie is still a lie, sometimes it's not as "bad of a lie".
In short, he is worried about people "thinking he's crazy" when he's obviously in need of intervention. I've tried to convince him to see a psychiatrist but that hasn't happened. He's not crazy but these are definitely problems. I know that I can't fix them but our friendship should not be destroyed because of a thing that I wasn't even involved in. Like I said before this behaviour is unusual since usually you can at least talk to him and he doesn't usually blame others for things like this for something that really is initially his fault.
I've come to the conclusion that he's probably trying to retract from people for a while. If things don't recover in the slightest by the 15th I am considering visiting him. But yeah. Just... damn this frustrates me.
Ok Daigonite here's a story for ya that may help you.
My daughter and her friends decided to play the fool and take off hiking where nobody knew they were. Her dad is a coast guard volunteer, me, and so she knows better than to leave for hours without letting someone know and keeping in contact. no buddy plan, no communication when they were headed out of signal range telling people when they would be back in range and would call.
This is how people die in the woods up here. I didn't just call the cops: I waited the six hours and called Highway Patrol and got a tag on them as a potential vehicle needing assistance. Plus I sent texts to their phones.
She and them also live on their own.
Guess what? She was scared at first, pissed later, and still is pissed. Came to me thinking I was gonna apologize for, as she called it, acting like a crazy coast guard dad. I did something real modern and PC. Except not. I said: "'Scuse me, are you birds dead? Because last time I checked, doing that and getting lost up there at this time of year is how peple die."
Now you're not a mom or a dad, but seriously, sometimes when you act out of public safety interest, or the safety interest of the young foo party involved, they will get upset and sometimes stay upset for awhile. I'm probably looking at weeks, here, but I'll live. And so will they.
Hope that can help you in some way. Try not to take it personally though I know that can be hard. Your feelings of worry and wondering if he is all right is totally normal for someone in your situation.
That sounds about right. You're right, I should just give it a bit of time. Of course, if he keeps doing this for a while then there's definitely something more up. Thanks. And then when he comes back I can help talk him through stuff. It won't "fix" him but it will hopefully rebuild our friendship.
I loved Sheps post 10 on it's human factor.
Sometimes you have to go clean up. I'd go.
Now after you go and get rebuffed, then you have to stand on that, but at least you'll know the terms.
I don't have the finances to fund doing the trip, it's about 500 miles and I need to save money for gas for work. I won't have the finances until the 15th. I think by that time that if he resolves things via Skype it would already happen, but if not, it wouldn't hurt to visit.
Again, I think he's playing avoidance since he needs to grapple with the situation at hand. He doesn't like dealing with the police getting involved for getting drunk since it requires an intervention, but maybe that's an intervention that he needs.
I think that talking in person would definitely help though (It has helped in the past when people get very upset). You lose the human factor when you're just typing stuff up on a computer. You can't hear their voice or determine the genuine nature of of someone's voice.
I'm still a bit nervous about going out there if only because it is a little "stalky" but considering that evidence seems to show that he isn't blocking me it probably won't hurt (although my wallet will cry a river).
nowhere in my posts did I say the OP should cut ties with this guy. I simply said that, for right now, it seems the message is clear about where he stands. so, knowing that, she should leave the ball in his court.
Yeah, it's really up to him. You seem like a great friend to this guy, and vise versa with him. If he realizes this at some point, he will come around. It sounds like him and I have some things in common -- we are both introverted and have some trust issues. The trust issues haven't surfaced with me until recently and it's something that the person with the trust issues ultimately has to get past by themselves. A little help from friends and family does help, but being overbearing has the reverse effect. It annoys me when my family tries too hard to be there for me when I'm going through tough times. I need someone to talk to for some of the time, but for more of it I just want time to myself. It's probably hard for people who are not introverted to understand this. If I were you I would give it some time, as hard as it might be, because you don't want to be overbearing.
Guess what? We've all been betrayed at some point. We all know what it's like to think we can trust someone, only to find out that we made a bad choice. Sure, different things can impact different people in harrying degrees, but this just isn't one of those things where no one else has ever been there and can't understand it. We've all experienced this one. It's late and I'm rambling.
I'm sorry, but I have to say, anthony's right yet again. OP, when you described your friend in the post after my last one, I could have sworn you were describing my ex--minus the guitar playing. lol.
No offense at all, but that's exactly the type of personality that you need to practice self-preservation against.
My ex wasn't an abusive monster--not in that gorey, mean, heartless sense. He was the person I was convinced couldnt' even hurt a fly if it annoyed him. He was the depressed type, the person whose mood swings got the better of him every now and then...And then one day he really snapped. And then he snapped again. And I kept saying "well this is the first time he's ever been like this so..." till I realized a while later what a toxic cycle I was in.
You know something? The guy who could never hurt a fly wasn't a monster--he needed help for sure--and he wasn't necessarily crazy. he was--and is--mentally ill and though he needed help, it wasn't any kind I could give him in the end.
Once, the guy who couldn't even hurt a fly flew into such an irrational state--it had to do with an argument he had with his dad--that he actually attempted to suffocate me when I tried to reason with him. We were alone in my single dorm room, door locked, and One minute I was talking to him, trying to get him to calm down,the next, I was in on the huge conspiracy against him, according to him of course, and I found myself on the ground with his hand tightening over my mouth and nose--and for about five seconds that seemed to last an eternity, I thought, shit. I'm going to become part of a sorry statistic...Young college girl killed by abusive boyfriend in dorm.
Not exaggerating at all. And this, from a person who was never violent before.
I'm not saying this to freak you out, but just in an attempt to show you how obviously you are making excuses for this friend of yours. I always said "well, I'll excuse this first-time bout of irrationality--he's not nuts, just depressed or bipolar--whatever he was diagnosed with from one week to the next." I swore if he repeated something like that, I'd cut myself out of his life. yet even after the physical altrication from hell, I still dated him for about six months before I decided I'm worth more than the emotional wreck this person put me through on a regular basis, whether he meant to or not.
Just a thought.
And this is not to say that either your friend, or my ex for that matter, are bad people. They're not. They're just mentally ill people and the ones who care about them are not really able to help them, and instead get way in over their heads both emotionally and otherwise.
So you're going to dip into your meager finances to take a trip to see him and confront him about his ways? Yep. I've heard that one before. In fact, I've been there before. I flew to Florida from Massachusetts after my ex--twice--to try and reason with him in person. I wasn't working at the time, and still I squandered over three thousand dollars on various expenses that had to do with my then-best friend and his irrationalities over a period of almost two years.
I'm not necessarily telling you all this to sway you from wanting to make things right with your friend--I know that anything I or anyone else might say that seems alarming and extreme will go right into the denial bin in your mind--because I was the queen of making excuses and being in denial when it came to my best friend. I'm only telling you this to shed some light on an all-too-familiar perspective, so that hopefully you'll think carefully about how much further you want to invest yourself in this friend's life while he's avoiding you.
Again, I'd stay put and let him come to you. And even then, I'd not waiste my entire reserve of emotional resources on this friendship from this point on, because that's what you're so clearly doing from the sound of your posts, and no one deserves to have to break themselves down like that. Not for anybody, not for any reason.
If the travel really stresses you many wise, and you can't afford it, don't go. Figure out another way. But if you can manage it, go.
I understand closure, no matter what others have posted.
Sure, they are right, but they don't need the closing either. If for nothing else but the knoing, because that seems to be what you need, go.
There are more subtle ways of reaching this sort of closure, wayne. I'm sure that in-person contact would be nice for this OP, but I can see that trip going wrong in so many ways, it's not even funny. Plus, you contradicted yourself in your last post. You said, "sure, they are right" meaning the rest of us who posted advice...then you tell the op to go and get that sort of closure anyway. Your'e basically saying, well, you've gotten good advice from people who probably know a little bit about this sort of thing, but go ahead and do your thing anyway. No big deal.
I get that everyone has to learn from their own mistakes, and I dont' benefit or lose anything regardless of what this OP does--it doesnt' affect me at all. Still, the twinge of regret of going farther than you should have can plague you for years if things go awrye. Just a thought from someone who's been there.
If I plan on going I have a mutual friend who is there as well as providing myself with self defense in case things go wrong. I believe that either one of three things will happen, 1, he will accept the fact that he made a mistake and we can talk about it, maybe even ending in having a nice dinner and heading home; 2, He will reject everything and I will just spend the rest of the time as a "vacation" with my other friend or 3, he'll pull some shit and he'll have shit sprayed in his face, but I highly doubt that he'd actually do that (but there's no way I'm going to take a chance).
No, his mutual friend can't contact him, because it was from a long time ago. Still, having someone who knows him well enough as well as someone who could actually beat his ass if he pulls any shit is a big plus. Also, I don't want to be alone and be far away.
The mutual friend is saying that we're going to just leave him be until the 22nd, and if he doesn't turn himself around we plan a visit. According to my friend, sometimes he just gets really upset about something stupid and closes himself off, and comes back. So hopefully it's the same stuff. I've noted myself that talking to him in person or at least in a voice communication helps a ton with both people like him as well as him when he's upset. Of course it's never been THIS bad but yeah.
I feel bad because I know, people are telling me that it can't occupy my life that much anymore, and it's certainly not occupying my life as much as I made this post, but it's still very upsetting. I think the reason is because it's very sudden and absolutely no lead up to it, and we were extremely close.
I think he has trouble admitting to his mistakes and he doesn't want to change but now that the police and his neighbours have an eye on his behaviour he has to, and that's making him panic. I didn't do anything and there's no way I really could have, so eventually I think what will happen is that he will get into a similar situation (again) because he refuses to change and then he will realize that I wasn't involved in any of it. Either that, or we'll visit, and hopefully at least get a little closure, or even manage to build ourselves up again.
I'm willing to give this person another chance but if they so much as even lay a hand on me they will receive the consequences of such.
Now I recognize a problem. He has something that I told him to hold onto back in January because I trusted him, and my parents tend to go through my stuff when I'm not home. He... still has this item. It's worth $50. Now what?
That last post is, if you'll pardon me here, a little vague. I don't know how vital or personal this item is. I don't know how much it means to you; is it the fifty bucks you're worried about? If so, I worry even more about the financial wisdom of going to see him. Since I'd rather give you the benefit of the doubt though, I'm going to guess that it's not the cost of the item so much as the fact that he's got it and your parents may wonder where it is. I'm...honestly a little confused.
I want to respond a bit to some of the things Anthony and Bernadetta have said. I'll try to keep it short, but you know how that goes...
They aren't dead wrong. The best person to judge how right or wrong they are is you, but only if you can be firm with yourself, and only if you can be fair about what your friend is doing, and has been doing, during your friendship. You've got to try and avoid rationalizing. Step back and look at the bigger picture, ask yourself if you see patterns and whether or not, should a deep-seeded problem exist, you're willing to tough it out.
I definitely don't advocate ditching outright in your circumstances, but regardless of how this goes, I urge you strongly to think about it, and hard. If you go to see him and it turns out all right, you get your closure, for god's sake don't just bury it all and dismiss it. File it away, but do not forget. And for awhile at least, keep your eyes open for similar pattern behaviour so you know how to react if it happens. If something ends well, some of us are happy to just forget the whole thing; on the surface that's all right, but it almost never works long-term. I've been on both ends of such difficulties enough to know that it's best to keep tabs, even if you're doing it quietly, on problem behaviour. Forgive but don't forget is basically my motto for larger problems like this. And even then, forgive only until such time that forgiveness means too great a compromise.
Some of us will go through more for our friends than others will. To the less tolerant or more hard-luck among us, a desire to be put through the wringer seems like folly. But you'll have to be the arbiter of your fate; no one else is truly qualified to judge, be they a supporter or a naysayer. All we can do is advise. I hope that some of us have helped, whatever happens.
Sure Writer, I contradicted myself, but here is the thing.
Often time’s great advice doesn’t account for heart, or emotional well-being.
In this case, I don’t have all the facts in hand, only one side.
On that side I see much emotion. If I say, do the smart thing, don’t go up there wait, this poster will still pine.
If I say, I understand your emotion, and go ahead and get closure, but it might waist your time, I have opened the door for the healing of the emotion, and I have explained what the outcome might be.
Now this poster is armed with a way to complete this and understands the risk.
That puts us about half way home.
I, myself often times know better about situations, but I need the closure. I do the calculated risk thing, because it heals me completely, and I’m not left wondering.
This is what separates us from machines. Makes us flesh, blood, and feelings. Human. Smile.
I'm going to assume this item is something of extreme importance. The thing is with friendships, people hold each other to different standards, that of which the two or more individuals don't discuss. But these things are just expected from one another. Everyone sees from their own perspective what it is that is important in a friendship, and when the so-called friend says or does something that goes against this perspective, more times than not the friendship is over. This is why most friendships don't last, and we generally end up with only a few people that we can honestly call close friends. On the other hand, for other people who want to have more friends and who are looking for someone that they can trust under any circumstances, the people who do this are not really thinking clearly of what is in their best interest. They just want to get attention from someone and to feel accepted. That happens with a lot of cases where a person stays with an abusive partner even though they continuously get hurt, and it could be for a host of other reasons. I'm not saying this is your exact situation because I don't know the guy from Adam, and I'm not going to sit here and speculate like I know exactly what it is that's going on. I just want to give some insight and more things for you to be aware of, just as Bernadetta has done as well, and a lot of other people too. You seem intellegent and I'm sure you will figure things out.
Sheesh.
I've trolled this topic for several days, reluctant to add my preachiness to everyone else's. But...
daigonite you sound like a nice person caught on the horns of a delimma. Do you jeopardize your friendship and trust by chasing this so-called friend, or do you protect yourself.
My only advice is to forget this slob and take care of yourself. After all, no one else will.
Okay, back to trolling, end of sermon.
Bob
Well, I'm not asking for advice again, I'm just fucking pissed and upset and depressed. Idiot boy genius here
actually came back a few days after the last post in this thread was submitted. Now he is being a retard
again.
So idiot fuck is at it again, and now with twice the dramatic bullshit.
Long story short, I moved out of my home back in April due to my parents being unpredictable and frankly
dangerous. I've faced a lot of hardship in this time, and I've had to borrow a LOT of money, and when I'm
done helping pay it back, I've got practically nothing left. I'm holding up alright but it's extremely stressful
dealing with this, work and school.
AND THEN ENTERS MISTER IDIOT FUCK.
So, in short, he did some really stupid things because he couldn't control his boner for me, even though he
was in a relationship with another person. We never actually did anything but the amount of grooming was
ridiculous. Even the last time we really spoke he was doing it. I told him to stop being a dipshit not because
I didn't think he was attractive (he is frankly and that's my own damn fault for falling for this idiot) but
because I didn't want him to go full on retard if and when he broke up with his girlfriend, which was likely
due to the fact that there were a lot of problems in the relationship.
What is strange though is the day I moved out was the last time I had any sort of real conversation with
him. He just turned very quiet randomly for a good 5 weeks. He was talking to other people so I don't really
know what that was about. I just assumed he was trying to make things work with his girlfriend I suppose.
So anyways super genius over here decides that he was just going to tell her "everything", which
presumably included his fantasies, because he was square right up fucked when it came to keeping this
relationship afloat after saying "everything". Yep. He just randomly out of the blue told his girlfriend that "oh
yeah I had a boner for another girl" apparently. He never actually disclosed what "everything" was, but
presuming by his later actions, it must have been very idiotic things to say to his girlfriend, especially
presumably that they were trying to "get back together" again.
So, he breaks his silence to plea for desperation. I'm willing to give assistance, but there's not really much I
could do other than write a letter saying that "I didn't do anything" and a few harmless youtube videos.
Frankly, he HAS done shit that has crossed the line and it's his own damn fault for doing so.
He decides the situation is hopeless and then throws a complete fucking curveball by claiming that "the
reason why his relationship failed was because I was weak and foolish and you have corrupt morals"
(presumably because I was saying that just because things ended that it wasn't the end of the world,
considering he almost killed himself in the past for similar actions). In short, he's absolving himself of blame
by accusing me of manipulating him. I was understandably pissed, but then he goes full on retard and blocks
me on skype. Two weeks later though he dropped the block for some reason.
This was almost a month ago. He hasn't said a word since. I can still call him and text and his skype
technically can still send messages but I think he's avoiding all methods of contact. All I fucking want is for
my friend to not be a fucking jackass when something in his life goes wrong WHEN ITS HIS FUCKING FAULT. I
know I'm an idiot for saying this, but I believe in "infinite continues" and I do believe he can be a genuinely
good person, and he's helped me out through a lot of shit including stopping my own self harm on several
occasions. If he'd just fucking come around and apologize then I'd be fine, but no. He wants to act like this
right now. I'm at wits end with this. I'm overwhelmed with everything right now and I don't need any of this
shit. I'm depressed and I just want a friend who's not going to be a complete fucking asshole when he's
butthurt about his relationship that was already in the shitter in the first place.
Don't worry. Whenever something goes wrong and he needs someone to blame for it, he'll pay you lots of attention. He'll say none of this shit would have gone wrong if you'd been there, as any real true friend would have been. How could you let him down like this?
Oh yeah, I definitely know how this one works, and the only thing you can really do is wash your hands of him and not give him any more of your attention. With losers like that, even negative attention is better than none at all, so if he can get any attention out of you, erode your self-confidence and resolve himself of all blame at the same time, he sees it as a total win for him. No one likes to think of a friendship as an investment, but essentially, that's what it is. If you're only getting pain out of it, then you have to decide when it's time to throw in the towel, which is much easier said than done.
Well like I said, if he grows up, he can come back. If he ventures out, he can
come back. I don't care. But I'm genuinely hurt by him being this much of a
jackass when I needed him most when he's too fucking retarded to throw
everything that he cares about away.
I just don't get it though. Why is it that 99% of the time he actually gives a
shit? Like, not everything we did was sexual, so that can't be the actual
answer.
And you really think he is going to change? How often does he take your feelings in to account? You're dealing with someone who is obviously both mentally unstable and spoiled. The problem with people like that is that there always seems to be someone who can't wait to rush in and save the day, so he never really learns that there can be consequences for his actions. Mommy, Daddy, or that best friend will come in and pick up the pieces and make it all better. No sweat.
Well I'm not letting that happen again. If he does return I'm going to make it
on my terms, not his. And if he doesn't agree then he can fuck the right hell
off.
but, why would you wanna deal with someone who treats you/others like this guy is treating you?
you're bending over backwards for him, and he's taking advantage of your kindnesses, through and through.
Anthony is right, in saying that this guy is bad news, and advising you to take whatever good memories you still have, and move on.
Maybe you need to do some soul surching?
kYou claim this is only a friendship, but looks to me you are maybe deeper then that, but just haven't admitted itto yourself?
It is safe to have him around and not admit it, but when he's gone, you are more upset then friendship warrents it seems.
You are writing as if you are a lover, not a friend.
You've not done anything physical, but you've got all the emotional looks like.
Maybe he senses this due to vibes so is angery that he can't get the rest.
Food for thought.
You've already tried, now you are pushing if you continue. Let go.
As stated that is easier said then done, but there it is.
I agree with much of what's been said here, and, if I may, I'll add my own personal story to the mix, as it's similar to yours in a lot of ways.
A few years ago, I dated a guy who was extremely unstable, emotionally manipulative, and used the chemistry between us as leverage when he wanted something. At the time, I thought I loved this guy. Time, circumstances, and maturity have given me a fresh perspective on that, but at the time, I felt as though I was helpless in his clutches, yet desperately in love with him. And, yes, I used that phrase, knowing full well its implications--that 'desperate" and "love" should not reside in the same sentence.
This guy was very controlling, telling me who I could and could not speak to. I watched him break down and cry on several occasions over things that were, frankly, just ploys he used to manipulate me. But I held him and comforted him and tried to be strong for him. There was definitely mental illness there, but as I've dealt with that myself, I'm not one to judge. But, when it came to my own problems, and I admit that I wasn't the most stable person back then, either, he would just berate me for what he perceived to be flaws and weaknesses. Throw good sex into the mix, which, in hindsight, was what kept our relationship together in the first place, and you've got an unmitigated disaster.
We were only together for about 5 months, and he was pressuring me to move in with him. I wasn't ready, and when he wouldn't take no for an answer, I finally came to my senses and broke it off. For the first week or so, he tried to guilt trip me into coming back by alternately drunkenly raging and crying to me. I've always been an empathetic person, and I almost fell for it all, until one day, we had a conversation on AIM where he basically told me that I was nothing to him, never had been, and that I had been dragging him down with my issues and that he hated me. I'll be honest, I pretty much lost my shit for about a year after that. I blamed myself, hated myself, wondered every day what he was doing, who he was with, the works. I wondered how I could have helped him, why I was such a bad person...
he always had these complex, ongoing dramas involving exes, family members, and so on. They all had problems with him for some reason or other, and he was quite bitter about it. I was put up on a pedestal, and he would repeatedly tell me these things in order to make me swear not to hurt him the way they had done. And I bought it, all of it. After our breakup, and subsequent falling-out, I hated the fact that I would be just another story to tell, just another way to get people to feel sorry for him.
I'm saying all this because, although the details of your story are different, there are distinct parallels that I can't ignore. For your own mental well-being, especially since you said you struggled with self-injury in the past, you have to think of yourself, now. I'm not usually one to advocate cutting ties, and I know that, right now, it will feel like the hardest thing in the world to do. You feel responsible, and you're going to feel like a steaming pile of shit for awhile after you do, but I wish I'd had someone there for me during my own ordeal to give me a kick in the ass and tell me that hey, this isn't right. You're better than that. Although, ironically, I doubt I would have listened, since I virtually had no self-confidence (and in a lot of ways, still don't.) So if you write my response off as bullshit, I can't say I blame you. I probably would, too, if I were in your shoes, looking at someone trying to make assumptions about my life on a forum when they don't know me from Adam.
But hopefully, someone will take something away from this post, and I won't have wasted my time entirely.
He wasn't quite like that. He didn't really control me in any way, we both
kind of just let us do our own thing. He was just someone who'd be normal
most of the time, then he'd get really upset, I'd talk him down and that'd
be that. Most of the time you could just do it and it wasn't a problem
really. I figured that I know I get like that too. It seems like he was more
self destructive than anything, which made me feel this was him self
imploding than anything. That's what's really so surprising about this, it
was obvious he had problems, but they usually were reflected on himself
and didn't even really take them out on me at all, and it wasn't like a dead
giveaway to abuse like him telling me who I could hang out with and stuff
(to be honest that sounds more like his girlfriend than him). I guess I could
still call the behaviour manipulative, but he seems more just out of control
than outright spiteful.
Honestly, I was in a relationship with someone like that, but it wasn't
romantic. He tried to talk down to me and cut me down. I felt really weak
and vulnerable. He told me all of my problems and acted like he knew
everything and should make me do everything his way because he was
autistic and I just got diagnosed with autism at that time and I looked up
to him, but he just took full advantage of that. His mom did too, it was
really crazy. Looking back, there was little that me and that one prick did
that was really like a friendship, but more like "I want to do this" and I said
okay. Again, that's what bothers me about this whole thing, because he
was never really controlling. The most I would even say he was controlling
was that he'd ask me for advice on how to deal with shit (frankly, a lot)
but if I said I couldn't help him he wouldn't get aggressive or mean or
anything.
I think my problem is that I think linearly and I can't really delve into the
minds of those who don't. It's just extremely disappointing. I wish that he
looked at it linearly too and he'd realize how much we supported each
other, but I guess that's in the past. It's very very disappointing.
Daigonite, he is indirectly controling you. Not physically, but he is manipulating and controlling your emotion as well. If he is not controling you emotionally, you won't post what you've post on post no 43. And he knows that. he knows you are ready to taking him back whenever he's back again. So, he can go all hyper, all strange and in some way emotional violent towards you, but then, like you admit publicly, you will take him back when he's back all sweet and normal again. This is also the very first sign of abusive relationship/domestic violent as well. Abusive relationship or and domestic violent is not just purely on physical abuse. The most dangerous tipe of abuse is emotional abuse. The abuser will go all sweet, all okay, everything is normal, but then, it can go all sour the next.
Exactly why she needs to do some soul searching. Love doesn't always have to be physical.
Just seems she's more hooked on a "friend" than is normal, or natural.
Yeah, and that is true. As I said, my story isn't exactly the same, nor do I presume to know everything about your situation. But emotional manipulation comes in many forms. It can be blatant or subtle. And usually, the more subtle forms come while you're still attached enough to give chance after chance. Once this person realizes you'll stick around no matter what, they might pile it on even thicker, that's all I'm saying.
I get that you want to dissociate yourself from anything that's being said here, though, because it's all part of the game he's got you playing.